Epistemic status: provisional in the sense that, I think somewhere
in MSLN there is reason to not believe in eternal conscious torment, but
these arguments in their exact form may need revision; and also
that I can only provide natural theological arguments right now.
9 May 2021: small edit, and added a postscript.
27 May 2021: added a paragraph, rewrote postscript.
Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT) is the doctrine that some people
will go to hell, existing forever in a state of conscious torment.
It is an offensive doctrine, but
one which may yet be true. Ordinarily we look at the Bible as the
source for this doctrine. In the future I may be able to consider
what the Bible says, overall, but for now, I will consider natural
theology: reasoning about God. Reason is used in interpreting the
Bible, and many people find reason trustworthy in itself, perhaps
more so than the Bible. Natural theology and the Bible talk about
the same subject: God. So what does the natural theology of MSLN say about ECT?
Would God want to or need to send people to hell in MSLN?
One popular definition of hell is "separation from God".
God may be able to bear
us for a long time, but what is unbearable at all can't be
borne forever. Fundamentally, God is the way he is (he is the
right way he should be from the beginning). We differ from
God in some ways that he can't bear (we are "sinful"). So either we
must change to fit God, or we must be separated from God. A
separation into ECT? Or a separation that destroys us? (The
latter view is called annihilationism; "Annihilation": to make
nothing.) Presumably, no one can exist when completely separated
from God.
MSLN argument: the metaphysical organism
The idea of the metaphysical
organism is a hypothesis about the means by which otherwise separate
consciousnesses connect. In it, a consciousness connects to another
consciousness by being conscious of its exact consciousness. Further,
whatever connects me to the outside world experiences exactly what I do.
So that being would experience ECT as well as I would. If God is the
being who connects all consciousnesses, he would have to experience the
ECT of all those who made themselves enemies of him. Could God ever rest?
He would experience the unbearability of their
torment for all time. They might not have the ability to stop experiencing
what they experienced, but he would. Arguably, unbearability can't be endured
forever, not even by God, because God would experience the unbearability
as unbearable. So then God would shut down their consciousnesses, and
this would be like them being annihilated, rather than experiencing ECT.
MSLN argument: simantism
However, maybe it is possible to think that God could cut himself off from
these consciousnesses, and they could somehow exist apart from him. They
would "speak" experience to themselves, in place of God, the Speaker. They
would have a very limited simantic vocabulary
compared to God. Maybe they could only speak the barest proto-conscious
sense of will, preference, and trust. If he left them to an existence so
minimalist that they couldn't torment themselves, it wouldn't be ECT, and
it would resemble annihilation.
If they had a less-minimalist existence, could they torment themselves?
Maybe, but not against their will, and though they might be the causes
of their torment, the experience of the torment itself would be against
their will. So it would be a case of them relating to what was not-them
(simantism), and their torment would have to be
spoken to them by another being. I have written in this paragraph as
though it is possible to speak simantic words without God, but then, the
simantic word of the entirety of reality, which is implied by a person's
experience in the moment, would be spoken to them, and who can do that
other than God? So God would have contact with them and would suffer
as they did.
MSLN argument: legitimism
From the point of view of legitimism, whatever
exists, in some sense should be, and should be absolutely. Absolute
ought comes from a truly worthy will, is a truly worthy opinion. An
opinion is conscious and personal, is part of a person. If God's opinion
founds all of reality, he is conscious of all that is. Any lack of
awareness on his part is of what does not yet exist. And what kind of
opinion is so valid that it can found reality? The answer given in
legitimism is that God is willing to take on the burdens he lays on
others, and is maximally receptive to reality. So then, God would know
of and directly experience the ECT of any who suffer it.
Summary so far
These considerations show that God himself can't escape
ECT if any of us remain in it. It is reasonable to guess that God would
prefer to rest than to suffer, and it seems that in the very nature of
unbearability, there is the inability to willingly endure it forever.
So these make a case against ECT.
Does MSLN in some way support eternal conscious torment?
On the other hand, do these natural theologies
lend any weight in favor of ECT? Perhaps legitimism does. Legitimism says
that there is an absolute ought, which can be violated by personal beings.
The violations are an offense against what should be. We know as humans
that sometimes exacting a just penalty from someone heals an injustice.
And this may be a foundational principle of reality. So, when people do
what is unjust, they must pay the penalty so that legitimacy can be healed,
unless the penalty is paid for them. So if their injustices are infinite,
they deserve infinite punishment, and this could lead to ECT. ECT as a
means to justice.
Finite beings don't have the power to cause infinite injustice in a
positive sense. So we wouldn't merit ECT. But perhaps by us turning
away from helping others, we are willing to shut the door on potentially
infinite numbers of people, for all we know or care about, in order to
enjoy our small pleasures. This could be considered in some sense an
infinite injustice for which we might have to pay eternally.
Counterpoint (27 May 2021):
Do people who neglect the well-being of others have
hearts that truly intended to cause an infinite amount of suffering?
Human beings are incapable of truly understanding infinity. It's not
even clear that such a thing could actually exist. (In a sense,
infinity is inconceivable, and normally, we think that that which is
inconceivable can't exist.) I think a God who abides by the simantic
word of "reasonable proportion" would say "their hearts were not
infinitely bad -- finitely bad is bad enough". No one has a disposition
sufficient to will infinity. And those who failed to will good (by
turning away from the cries of others) did so at a finite, and not
infinite, volume. Whatever concept they had of others suffering, from
whom they turned away, was not actually infinite.
The past is broken, made illegitimate by our acts. To fix it, someone
could pay the penalty. But we can't pay for all our acts -- we would all
die, have to be destroyed. But God doesn't want us to be destroyed.
So he created reality with a more-finite partner, who shares his character.
The Father (the metaphysical organism and Speaker), creates with a Son.
This Son is legitimacy, as much as the Father is, because they decided on
reality together as beings who were disposed to experience the burdens they
lay on us. So he can take on the penalty. He dies existentially alone,
facing annihilation. He does this willingly. Because he is legitimacy,
he does not deserve to die, and so in himself is able to pay the penalty.
And so legitimacy is healed. (The penalty is paid once -- if the Son died
again, that would create a new injustice, for which there could be no
further healing. Having paid the penalty, the Son does not need to remain
dead/destroyed, and so he is brought back to life.) This healing of the
past of legitimacy, healing of justice, makes it so that the underlying
issue of justice is not an obstacle to us avoiding hell.
Though God does not need to punish us for justice's sake, God may
still find a kind of punishment useful. We sometimes forget that he
loves foolish people and people with a certain amount of psychopathic
traits, people who might only repent if they feared death and punishment.
There is a place for death, and for suffering hell, in the plan of salvation.
But the suffering need not be eternal in order to provide an incentive
for the salvation of those who require it. On the other hand, the
idea of ECT, in some cultures and time periods, might have been one we
liked to believe as a civilization, and were benefited by, even if the
reality is that there is no such thing. The stronger image of hell
doesn't seem to have been as unacceptably scary in the past, and may have
saved some people that the softer image would not have.
A parent might say, "The consequences for hitting your brother
are that you don't get to play video games for the rest of the
night." They don't want you to do that kind of thing or be that
kind of person, and want to give you a reason to see things their
way. Hitting your brother is replaying the story of Cain and
Abel -- you should be cast out of your house with a mark on you
for the rest of your life. But the pain your brother felt, and
the pall you cast on the trust and trustworthiness of the house,
only merit you missing out on your greatest pleasure for a few
hours. So God as the parent can ordain consequences for
injustice without them directly paying for the deeper, truer
injustice. And like a parent, he would ordain these, one would think,
in order to preserve the good of his children in the long run,
not for justice's sake.
The natural theologies of MSLN say that ECT is unlikely (God
wouldn't want to experience unbearability) and that the parts of
legitimism that lend themselves to ECT don't have to (given the death
of the Son).
However, this is only part of MSLN. What remains is the
interpretation of the Bible (the New Wine System).
What about the biblical component of MSLN?
I may turn toward study of the Bible itself, for myself, at
some point, in evaluating MSLN. It seems like something I should
do at some point. Until then, I will appeal to a few outside
perspectives: the developer of the New Wine
System, Philip Brown,
favors annihilationism (giving arguments for that position in
New Wine for the End Times) and this article and this article
give me reason to believe that there are valid arguments
for annihilationism, and that there is a debate -- it's not
like annihilationism is a strange thing that no respectable
Bible interpreter espouses. So for now I can leave the question
of what the Bible says undecided, allowing for the possibility
that the annihilationist part of the New Wine System is
biblical, so that the Bible agrees with MSLN natural theology.
Postscript
Here's the strongest case I can make for ECT within MSLN terminology:
God is legitimacy, and part of that is his justice. Now, you have to
be careful how you think about this. If his justice is at all seen as
separate from him, then we observe the following. Justice exists to
punish violations of legitimacy (of God). So if justice itself perpetuates
violations of legitimacy, then it loses its legitimacy. Perpetuating
hell for all eternity violates legitimacy, since those in hell are illegitimate
and God must be metaphysically connected to their existence. To whatever
extent justice failed to bring about God's will (failed to serve legitimacy),
it would no longer ought to be, and would not function. So for ECT to
occur, it can't be that justice is separate from God, or a possession of
God, over which he could have authority. Justice has to be an inherent
element of God, one over which he does not have any sovereignty, because
it is sovereignty (God) itself (himself).
As we can see, justice is something that conflicts with God getting
what he wants. Perhaps God wants justice, but also wants everything to
be in harmony with himself. How can he resolve this issue? Perhaps
justice is so much more valuable to him than harmony that he really
wants to suffer for all eternity so that justice can be served. (God
suffers whenever we do.) God is so principled, and takes us so
seriously as moral agents, that he is willing to sacrifice his peace of
mind, for all eternity, just to hold us accountable. He is willing to
violate himself by prolonging the existence of each person in hell beyond
any point at which it might serve the purpose of giving him a world which
is all good, just to get the greater good of justice. Maybe he can't sin
against himself in this way by himself, but he contracts out the willing
of this state of affairs to evil beings, as he
did before with temptation. Temptation (and the willing-to-temptation)
came into the world so that we could come into tune with legitimacy, but
this willing-to-ECT came in order to prolong the existence of
illegitimacy. But this is acceptable because in this case, the prolonging
is because justice is being served, and justice outweighs the prolonging
of sin and suffering.
Perhaps I could respond by saying that the nature of unbearability
is such that for God to experience our unbearable suffering, over time
the strength of the effect of the unbearability on God's will would
be such as to reshape his values away from valuing justice. Or, the
unbearability of God's experiencing of the existence of illegitimacy, could
eventually corrode his willing of justice. This makes sense to me.
However, isn't it possible that the lack of justice is unbearable to
God? So then either way there would be unbearability. God would
be trapped.
You could say that God could simply focus on
the inherent attractiveness or
life-givingness or the like of all the good in his experience, but
for God to really experience what we do, God can't escape by shifting his awareness to what is positive.
Could God take a break from tormenting the people in hell? (They sleep,
perhaps?) But they would continue to have illegitimate hearts,
dispositions that should not be. It is the awareness of "should not
be" that is unbearable -- maybe Rawlette
is right to some extent in saying that pain qualia are the qualia
of "ought-not-to-be-ness". Whatever is truly bad about pain, as
an experience, is that we can't accept it. Completely acceptable
pain is not "eternal conscious torment", but is more like the sting
of tolerable hot peppers (for those who like to eat such things),
or sore muscles after reasonable exercise. What is unbearable is
that which ought not to be, and sin (violations of legitimacy)
ought not to be.
Clearly God can put up with some illegitimacy and unbearable suffering --
quite a lot. He must have some kind of patience for that. Is that
patience sufficient to endure an eternity of illegitimacy and/or
unbearable suffering? If it is finite, no. The prolonged unacceptability
will eventually outweigh whatever finite patience that he has. But what
if it is infinite? If God has infinite patience, then in his eyes sin
and suffering is acceptable. He never needs to get rid of it, can
tolerate it forever. At no time would he be unable to let it be part of
his reality. But by definition, what should not be is unacceptable. If
it can't be accepted, then at some time or other, God (legitimacy) has
to do the opposite of accept it -- make it cease to exist. So
legitimacy contains in it the necessity to bring about a state in which
there is no illegitimacy.
So God would have to end the situation of unbearable lack of justice
versus unbearable tolerance of sin and suffering. How could he go about
doing this? He could annihilate the people who are illegitimate (adjust
his concern for justice downward). Or he could come to find acceptable
their sins. But then why keep them in hell? (I tend to think that sin
is sin only if it violates the unchanging nature of God, but I won't
argue for that here.) So either way, God does not permit or ordain
ECT.
However, you could say that God can't change his own nature, or
the nature of what is sinful. So he could be stuck with "sin is
unchangeably unacceptable, and justice is unchangeably necessary, in
such a way that ECT is necessary".
But we should remember that there is an anthropic principle to
creation. According to the anthropic principle, we should expect to
observe the universe to be a certain way because it permits life on earth
to exist, allowing us to observe anything in the first place. So,
we wouldn't have been created by God if he knew that there would be
such a terrible and insoluble problem in his own future, if he were
to go ahead and risk our existence. (God creates us with his own
extensive but finite patience in mind, so that we can arrive at the
final harmony before it runs out.)
I haven't quite absorbed all of these thoughts, but I think
for now I am satisfied that this shows that ECT does not follow
from MSLN.